General Discussion

Starts 25th November
GTR Donk
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General Discussion

Postby GTR Donk » Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:29 pm

Chat away guys,
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UGAFISHDAWG
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:45 pm

Am I Reading This Right? !

Postby UGAFISHDAWG » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:19 pm

I just logged in to the Club Series Forum this morning to check it out. I noticed a New "Stewards" Post. After reading it multiple times, I had to ask..Am I Reading This Right ? I have been a Part Time VGN Racer for Years and I can't remember a Penalty of this Severity since I have been here. After watching the Yas Race 2 replay multiple times, I would have to say that the #43 Car did have some "Track extensions", but I think the Entire Field had Track Extensions at some point throughout the race. I've copied the Stewards Reviews below for this incident and a prior Series incident. In my opinion, the Severity of the Penalty Assessment for the #43 doesn’t make sense based on anything I've ever seen in the Past. My take is, #43 is being Prosecuted as A Murderer and Rapist when the crime is Shoplifting. Comparing the Penalty Assessed on the #424 Car from September and the #43 from December shows the Discrepancy in Penalties that had me asking....Am I Reading This Right?

Stewards from December 2019
Race 2:
Car #43 multiple track extensions - gaining an advantage
Penalty: 5 place grid penalty to be added to the results from race 2 at Yas Marina and a 5 place penalty to be added to the qualifying results for the next race attended.


Stewards From September 2019
Car#424 (multiple lap 1 infractions)
Lap 1 Turn 1 car #424 cuts the entry and extends track limits on exit and overtakes several cars in the process.
Lap 1 Turn 4 car #424 divebombs into the corner directly taking out 2 cars, with further cars caught up in the incident. No attempt was made to rectify the incident on track (i.e. give positions back)
Penalty: Official warning and will start at the back of the grid at the next race they attend. (Still allowed to earn qualifying points for their relative position)

Thanks for the opportunity to allow me to express my opinion.

Fish 🐟
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Tiggerwoo
Posts: 490
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:29 am
Location: Uk

Re: General Discussion

Postby Tiggerwoo » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:04 pm

Personally I've have issue with a penalty also fish but probs best raise it an admin rather than splash it here?

Personally haven't seen the offence and would like to point out that not Everyone cut corners cos I didnt but consistent corner cutting unless stated otherwise via certain tracks exceptions its in the rules but also has its own separate bit about track limits etc..moral of the story don't do it as its cheating & if u see someone doing it and taking the piss then report it as its cheating
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Rally Cap
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:02 am

Re: General Discussion

Postby Rally Cap » Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:05 am

It's probably fair to note and in my defense...

1. #43 never passed anyone illegally and lead the entire race L1 through L8.
2. #43 had an over 4 second lead on laps 5 of 8 before any real infractions occurred.
3. Drivers behind the #43 car passed off track, gained time and advantage but no penalty or consideration was made for them.
4. The winner of this race was never in question.
5. Most of the 'cuts' happened as a result of slowing down too early to avoid an overrun and being overly conservation NOT being overly aggressive.
6. This is the first steward review of #43 in any series in over four years.
7. This is an unprecedented penalty on any level, there have been extreme and intentional misbehaviors in the past to include: abusive language, personal attacks in the lobby, intentionally wrecking other racers, dive bombs resulting in massive damage, off-track overtakes that changes leads, accidents that changed winning outcomes, we even had guys and teams who fixed finishes to gain starting position in the next race that didn't get this kind of penalty...none of that happened here yet the penalty incurred was by far the most severe ever handed down and frankly incomprehensible.

This penalty to me completely lacks perspective, is myopic, and is not even close to commensurate with the infraction. To have a race win removed, get a P6 (which is beyond absurd) and then get a 5 grid penalty on the starting grid the following race is simply unimaginable.

Additionally, I immediately acknowledged my errors post-race, I owned it without being asked. I knew I had some poor laps, to be honest, I'm rarely that far ahead. I lost good discipline and got in my head a little and I cop to that, frankly, I expect and deserved a penalty. I didn't expect my balls to be lobbed off and I don't quite appreciate being made an extreme example of and for what purpose I simply can't understand. This penalty is at best mean-spirited, unprecedented, and lacks any sort of context. I would welcome an appeal process.

See you on the track
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Tiggerwoo
Posts: 490
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:29 am
Location: Uk

Re: General Discussion

Postby Tiggerwoo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:48 am

I had a look yesterday.. 11 cuts in 3 laps.. 11. Stay within track limits and there won't be an issue. It could easily have been a disqualification with the amount corners were cut and it wasn't extending it was cutting and yes mistakes happen its going to and you aren't a dirty driver as you have pointed out and there are a few on VGN who do seem to get away with leniency but unless it's reported nothing will be done as far as I understand as ppl aren't going to look at everybody in replays and waste hours. Penos aren't going to be perfect and I have suggested that any peno given must have some justification as to make ppl understand severity of a given peno but in this case cutting a corner passing someone ofr otherwise is gaining and unfair advantage whether its a. 3 or. 2 per cut they all add up and the fact u were reported is unlucky as at the time I thought u deserved the win tbh. Its nothing personal from the stewards (which I am not BTW) but the cutting rules are clearly marked on forum and have there own little section. My opinion not that it was wanted lol
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Tiggerwoo
Posts: 490
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:29 am
Location: Uk

Re: General Discussion

Postby Tiggerwoo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:10 am

Just remembered that Maynard on old sites dsq an entire team for cutting every lap in a gt race at daytona and more recently the hcr cerberus & noodle who were band for abuse etc also were disqualified from a race at Silverstone in gt cars for excessive cutting.
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Rally Cap
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:02 am

Re: General Discussion

Postby Rally Cap » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:16 am

Thanks Tigger, I understand and owned up to my errors immediately, this particular outcome says to me that my win is the worst thing that's ever happened at VGN. I don't think I can abide by that...
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Tiggerwoo
Posts: 490
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:29 am
Location: Uk

Re: General Discussion

Postby Tiggerwoo » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:23 am

Guys have disqualified for excessive cutting.. U only dropped 5 places so it could be a lot worse
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Rally Cap
Posts: 123
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:02 am

Re: General Discussion

Postby Rally Cap » Wed Dec 11, 2019 4:51 pm

I dropped 5 places, lost a race win, 50 points, AND got penalized five starting grid positions in the next race for my first offense and second career win in four years in an event that affected nothing. Seems fair and the Maynard example you gave didn't even happen at VGN.
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Wookie2002
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:01 pm

Re: General Discussion

Postby Wookie2002 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:54 pm

Matty Bolton had a worse punishment for the same offence around watkins glen i think?
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